OK, I’ll jump in, SARAH PALIN

[WTL]

An unfertilized egg passing isn't abortion. Without a sperm its nothing.

I wouldn't want the government involved if it werent this issue of life and death. Its the one area where Government was created to deal with.

I agree about set belt laws.

You really have more problems with just writing than anything else. I don't have a problem with liberal views, I see them a quaint and thats about it. Bring it on.

[1/4 stick]

Hey WTL maybe you can help me with this. What defines a liberal and/or conservative? Reason I ask is that I usually find myself somewhere in the middle on most issues so it's kind of hard to define which I am.

[WTL]

Originally Posted by 1/4 stick

Hey WTL maybe you can help me with this. What defines a liberal and/or conservative? Reason I ask is that I usually find myself somewhere in the middle on most issues so it's kind of hard to define which I am.

Several answers.

The most correct first;
Absolutely nothing. They are made up words with no real standards of definition. The understood meanings by people are often totally conflicting., Political vocabulary is a huge pet peeve of mine. Liberal can mean generous when used in regular language (IE pour the sauce on the steak liberally) it can mean promoting social freedom (my teacher says liberals pushed through the 64 voting rights act) or it can mean restricting social freedom (my buddy jim bob cooter said dem dam liberals gonna take our guns away). It normally means "a lot of" something, but the what is never defined.

Conservative in contrast normally means "comparatively smaller amounts of that something" but again, that something is never defined and their are exceptions to this.

It is also worth noting the words left and right mean next to nothing. They were originally coined during the French Revolution as the "conservative" side of the assembly was sitting on the right side of the room and the "liberals" on the left.

Also, not that on the extremes, it is said communists are liberal or leftist and facists are conservative or rightist. But this is very confusing as both facists and commies push a huge centralized government, which is often understood to be antithetical to conservativism. From my point of view, commies and socialists are both statists seperated by mere technicalities and are peas in the same pod.

The language we use matters most in terms of perception. Over the years, highly charged political words change in meaning, and gain negative association. The word liberal is now being dropped by many democratic consultants in favor of the word "progressive". They found that liberal, which originally had been a positive word when they co-opted it, became a liability.

Libertarians too, are under a new banner. The word "libertarian" is a recent phenomena. Historically, we were called "classical liberals". We also have been identified with the "old right". Confused yet?

The second answer is simple. A liberal or conservative is the other guy that you are trying to demean and box in.

One last thing to confuse you. This illustration is often promoted by libertarians as trying to make a little more sense out of the right-left statist -libertarian terminology.



You can also take the worlds smallest political quiz to place yourself on that diamond, although I'm not sure how accurate such a little quiz could be. (BTW, I'm right next to Bob Barr)

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

[carolina-rig-01]

Originally Posted by bassFishingWNY

stilling tring to find HOW life began!

if you like reading so much maybe you should open up a bible. and i didn't add you to my ignore list so i can still read your ignorant post, i am just ignoring you on my own.

[BigBassin144]

You may get more people to listen if we could actually understand what you're trying to say...

BB

[cassidyta]

While I too hate the assigned names, the quiz was rather interesting.
Per the quiz, I am pretty much exactly where I suspected to be. Of course, retaking and making a firm stand on my two maybes changed the label.
I would say that few people fall into any one category. The assignment of these labels are more often given by others rather than themselves.

[1/4 stick]

Yep, I'm right on the line of liberal and libertarian.

[nofearengineer]

I'm an 80/80 WTL. Just where I knew I would be. I pretty much only disagree with Libertarians on a few points where their stance would cause anarchy, in my opinion.

[Jim80]

I ended up 80/60 which made me a libertarian i guess .


Jim

[nofearengineer]

I think many of us who are self-proclaimed "conservatives" are going to find that by modern standards, we are Libertarians. That has a lot to do with what WTL was saying about Libertarians being known as the "Old Right". I think when the 20th century liberals went so anti-God, it caused a sort of "equal and opposite reaction" in the conservative movement, who some would say felt they had to respond in kind. Those of us who just want to mind our own business, raise our children as we see fit, and go to church quietly got left in the lurch.

[bassFishingWNY]

I’m not the smartest, or a great speller, or a history expert, but I do know what I see!
I Atheist to start. It was a story made up, that took hold. The same as Moslems think of their god, and when you die, you will have 80? Virgins, that why the do the suicide thing. In older times it was the Sun that was GOD, the stars. There is no proof that there was ever a god, it’s only what you want to believe. I did read the bible by the way, the “old testament, and new” . If you think that god will give you a place to live after you die, that’s great,. That helps a lot of older people cope with death.
On being liberal, or conservative. If you give to charity, help anyone, you are liberal. The Armed forces are liberal. Bush was liberal for the Medicare drug act that made the drug corporations richer, and saying he wanted to help the poor! Twisted words!
I worked hard all my life, and saved. With my pension, and Social Security, I retired at 62! Now it’s my time to enjoy life, and fish! I may not be around for the 2012 election, but if I am, I’ll vote Democrat! History has shone that the Democrat helped all of Americans, the conservative republican’s have helped only the super rich!
By the way, the south was once Democrat, the republican bible thumping turned it to the right!

Skip!

[MississippiBoy]

Originally Posted by bassFishingWNY

I’m not the smartest, or a great speller, or a history expert, but I do know what I see!
I Atheist to start. It was a story made up, that took hold. The same as Moslems think of their god, and when you die, you will have 80? Virgins, that why the do the suicide thing. In older times it was the Sun that was GOD, the stars. There is no proof that there was ever a god, it’s only what you want to believe. I did read the bible by the way, the “old testament, and new” . If you think that god will give you a place to live after you die, that’s great,. That helps a lot of older people cope with death.
On being liberal, or conservative. If you give to charity, help anyone, you are liberal. The Armed forces are liberal. Bush was liberal for the Medicare drug act that made the drug corporations richer, and saying he wanted to help the poor! Twisted words!
I worked hard all my life, and saved. With my pension, and Social Security, I retired at 62! Now it’s my time to enjoy life, and fish! I may not be around for the 2012 election, but if I am, I’ll vote Democrat! History has shone that the Democrat helped all of Americans, the conservative republican’s have helped only the super rich!
By the way, the south was once Democrat, the republican bible thumping turned it to the right!

Skip!

So, I disagree with the liberals (or left wing, or progressives, or whatever you want to call them) on many things, from abortion, to Social Security, gun control, taxation, etc, etc, etc., but because I donate money to my church to help run a soup kitchen, and World Vision to help one child in Venezuela and another in India go to school and have food to eat, I'm a liberal? That's a very big leap, to define a person by one small aspect of their life.

You bass fish, so you must be a redneck. I own a gun, so I must be an anarchist (sp?) survivalist extremist camped in the mountains of West Virginia with tons of MRE's, preparing for the destruction of society.

You really ought to be careful about the way you try group people into a small box of your own making. I don't like being boxed in.

[bassFishingWNY]

I’m democrat, and liberal. I own guns, a lot of them! I hunt, kill game, like the sport!
That was a story made up by Hesston, to turn the people right!
I don’t have them because the right is saying, we need them to stop the “left Hitler’s from taking over , and stopping our freedom, the guns you have will be nothing compared to what the government has!
The far right (neoconservative) has put false info into too many brains!
We (liberals) OWN guns, hunt, fish. It’s the far right that is saying, the left will take away your guns!

[MississippiBoy]

I don't know if you're ignoring my point, or if you just missed it. Read my last post again and see if you can come up with the purpose of what I said.

[bassFishingWNY]

None at all! What are you saying?

[jasonfish320]

bassFishingWNY, I don't understand how you can be so sure you "will vote democrat in 2012". This is one thing I really can't grasp and it's not about republican or democrat. I can't stand to see folks vote the party line everytime. Either party does not dictate who a person is and what he/she believe. There are many republicans who support very liberal ideals and vice versa. In a past post you wrote "don't believe what the right wing media feeds you" (or something along those lines). Maybe you need to take a hard look at how the media is manipulating your views.

[jasonfish320]

I'm not even going to touch the religion thing, but I think it's not important that you believe in god, buddha, mohammed or whatever. I think it's more important that you have faith in people, that people will try to do what's right. I believe in god, but don't look down on non-believers as I have had my moments of doubt. I just like people to have faith, even if you are not religious you can be spiritual and have faith in something.

[bassFishingWNY]

A rubber stamp congress for 8 years? Yet today, the republican voting no on every bill?
The media, It's as far right as you can get, Look at who owns the MSM, Medic!

[jasonfish320]

Originally Posted by bassFishingWNY

A rubber stamp congress for 8 years? Yet today, the republican voting no on every bill?
The media, It's as far right as you can get, Look at who owns the MSM, Medic!

It's absolutely pointless to argue with you.

1) the tv media is so obviously liberal it's ridiculous...I don't remember seeing pages upon pages of Bush photos and articles in magazines like US and People. They follow Obama around like he's a freakin' celebrity and even if he does make fun of mentally handicapped kids he will come away smelling like a rose.

2) How did we ever spend the largest deficit in U.S. history by voting NO all the time?

[carolina-rig-01]

Originally Posted by bassFishingWNY

The media, It's as far right as you can get

you must not watch cnn at all huh. it's the biggest group of democrats that i have ever seen.

oh and by the way, my jig company gives to charity all the time. the most known would be the wounded warrior project but there are several others as well, but you yourself called me right wing so how does that fit into your theory about if you give to charity you are a liberal?

[MississippiBoy]

Ok, I'll type slow for you....

Step 1: You said "If you've given to charity, you're a liberal."
Step 2: I give to charity, and I'm not a liberal.
Step 3: There is no step 3. You're just wrong.

[bassFishingWNY]

Twisted words, I'll help others, but not liberal ?

[MississippiBoy]

Originally Posted by bassFishingWNY

Twisted words, I'll help others, but not liberal ?

How did I twist your words? I quoted you verbatim. And I never said "I'm going to give to charity, but I don't want to help liberals." Where the hell did you come up with that? Talk about twisting words...

Ok, let me break it down further. I am not a liberal. I'm conservative/libertarian mixed. But YOU SAID "If you give to charity, you're liberal." That's not a valid argument AT ALL. You're taking one characteristic of my life and using it to define me. That's ludicrous. I was trying to get you to see that in my post about how someone having a bass boat or guns defines their whole life. I never said anything about you having or not having guns. Frankly, I could care less. Buy them, sell them, hate them, whatever. That's your choice.

What you're doing is similar to a logic puzzle I've seen before.

As an exercise, take these two statements as true:
1. All cows are brown.
2. An animal at my house is brown.

Now, using just that information, prove or disprove this hypothesis:
"Since all cows are brown, and this particular animal is brown, then that animal must be a cow."

Is that logical?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
No, it's not, in case you couldn't figure it out. Cats can be brown, dogs can be brown, horses, birds, wildebeests....

Phrased in a similar way, your argument would go like this:
1. Liberals give to charity.
2. MississippiBoy gives to charity.

Hypothesis: MississippiBoy is a liberal.

Do you see the problem yet?

[BigBassin144]

I'm not going to get into polictics, religion, etc. But WNY, you are one of the most opinionated and ignorant people I have ever seen. And those two traits don't mix well.

BB

[bassFishingWNY]

Ohio, are you one of the ones that stolid Bush president in 2008? Keep the democrats from voting? Gave Bush 30,000 votes, ware only 300 people lived?