How much is America going to take?

[carolina-rig-01]

At what point do we stop rolling over and playing dead and stop letting stuff like this go on? I am not sure what the first steps would be for us to revolt but I have a feeling we will find out sooner rather than later. I know I for one am sick and tired of watching this country turn into a bunch of bleeding hearts who have no backbone. At some point we have to start standing up for what we believe in again and stop allowing our country to be walked on by everyone else and making us a laughing stock.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38538068...ife/?GT1=43001

[Bassboss]

we'll see about that mosque in a year or so won't we!

[carolina-rig-01]

Originally Posted by Bassboss

we'll see about that mosque in a year or so won't me!

I agree that getting it passed and getting it built are two different matters. But just the fact that they are allowed to build it there is what pisses me off.

[keithdog]

Does anyone think the KKK would be allowed to build a memorial at Gettysburg or at the site Martin Luther King was shot to death? Would the Natzis be allowed to build anything at Auschwitz? Would they allow a Jap Zero to be proudly displayed at Pearl Harbor by the Japanese? It's high time we start electing leaders nation wide who would make John Wayne proud!

[bcklash]

Originally Posted by keithdog

Does anyone think the KKK would be allowed to build a memorial at Gettysburg or at the site Martin Luther King was shot to death? Would the Natzis be allowed to build anything at Auschwitz? Would they allow a Jap Zero to be proudly displayed at Pearl Harbor by the Japanese? It's high time we start electing leaders nation wide who would make John Wayne proud!

Keith has usual your right on the money. I'm so glad I grew up in the 60's and 70's.

[Jrob78]

The general public in America is soft. We as a whole, no longer have the stomach for the fight. Every kid gets a freaking trophy at the end of the little league season, can't have any losers now can we? Political correctness is killing this country. Reverse discrimination is killing this country, we're so busy trying to keep the illegal immigrants happy and the gays happy and the Muslims happy that the government is totally alienating the average, working class, tax paying citizen.

There is a term used often on some other right leaning boards I visit, "sheeple." Sheep are animals that are led around by a shepherd. They are herded and told where to go, what to eat and when to eat it. Sheeple are people that are led around and told what to do by our "shepherds." They don't ask questions, they don't put up a fight, they believe that our government is doing what's right for us and as long as no one gets their feelings hurt everything is well. The problem is, there are wolves in this world who would love nothing more than to see our country crumble. America needs to wake up before everything we hold dear is taken away. Are you a sheep or are you a wolf?

Michael Bloomberg is complete idiot and should be ran out of New York.

[WTL]

I'm going to take a slightly different stance.

First, this is a local issue. It should be dealt with locally.

2nd, losing sleep over it is not productive. In the big picture this is very small news.

3rd, lets not go overboard with the anti-muslim stuff. It was radical muslims that attacked us on 9-11, and they were wrong, but that doesn't make all who practice islam wrong.

4th, it would be much better if the people trying to build this mosque or whatever it is (I have heard conflicting things) would move it a few more blocks away, in light of the concern.

5th, much of the concern is political posturing. It is, again, not a hugely important issue. But politicians like to rack up free points and creating a big hullabaloo over this is free.

[brushhog]

WTL,
I was waiting for you to see this... I guess my first visceral reaction is that there is something inherently wrong in this.

But, after a little deliberation, I come to the conclusion that this is not a big deal. Building a mosque where it is being built doesn't violate any laws. Is it in poor taste? Probably.... Would it be a decent thing for the muslims in question to build elsewhere? Definitely... You cannot legislate human decency.

However, let us remember, the same constitution that allows us our freedoms, allows the people in question here the same ones....

[Ebbetsguy]

I don't usually get involved in Religon or politics, both are just BS anyway
Here is my take on it as I love our Constiution.
You know how when you listen to radios, watch your TV's and read your papers, there is a lot of very annoying and crazy crap out there. This is the price we pay for freedom of Speech.
The KKK, The Japs and the Nazis are not religons.
This is the price we pay for freedom to choose our religions and seperation of church and state
btw the KKK has chosen that spot a few times to hold rallies since then, and were granted it.

I do not not have a religon, but if I did I would be damn sure that the state would have no business in my religous decisions

also The Arab/Muslim terrorists use our own freedoms against us, AlQueda has stated this stratergy publically. So if we dont give them 15 mins worth of grief, than this Mosque is of little to no importance as far as political terrorism is involved. We have to be clear that they can not affect our freedoms or use our laws against us to jepordize our feeling of
LIFE < LIBERTY and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS
This has nothing to do with being soft, it has to do with this New Yorker saying %$!@#(* YOU to the pricks who started all this and being grateful for our freemdoms

[lilmule]

I think you hit the nail on the head,to do anything would in fact be against our own policy and constitution,if you dont like it fine you have that freedom of speech given to you by the same article.
But when is a New Yorker ever happy? Life liberty and the pursuit of-but not guaranteed happiness.

[Ebbetsguy]

Originally Posted by lilmule

I think you hit the nail on the head,to do anything would in fact be against our own policy and constitution,if you dont like it fine you have that freedom of speech given to you by the same article.
But when is a New Yorker ever happy? Life liberty and the pursuit of-but not guaranteed.

Most of the time I am happier than ^!@!@* , I will be even happier once I can move back home to Brooklyn.,
Life ,Liberty and the pursuit of happiness, is actually from the Declaration of Independence, and I think the actual wording is a strong guarentee that our rights to purse it were on the founding fathers minds, it was not until the Constitution and subsequent Bill of Rights that these rights were named and guarenteed

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happines"
from the final, published draft of the Declaration of Independence

[keithdog]

[QUOTE=Ebbetsguy;309280

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happines"
from the final, published draft of the Declaration of Independence[/QUOTE]

I love those words and what they mean. There were times when Americas leaders ignored them such as when we tried to destroy the native Americans. America is not blameless for sure. However, I will draw the line when we allow others to try to take away those rights our veterans have fought and died for since this country was founded. They paid the ultimate price to make sure we could all live by the standards this declaration guarentees. I will not stand by and give the ok to any group who dares to take away or limit those rights or preach any message that denigrates it within my own countries boarders. They can burn our flag in Iran, but woe to those who come here and dare to challenge what we have fought for so long to protect, the rights of all Americans to live without fear of having those rights taken away. The nation of Islam wants to do just that. We ARE the infadels in their minds. I know that not all muslims agree with the terrorists actions, but damn few are willing to condemn their actions. I heard so many after 9-11 say that they disagreed with what the terrorists did but they understood why they did it. Understood??? Only people who are totally misguided and brainwashed would say they "understand" why anyone would do what they did that day. And this mosque is nothing more than a victory flag for the Muslim extremeists. I can hear the laughter comming from the terrorist camps all the way from here and it makes me sick to know that anyone in power of granting the building of this mosque would allow such a travisty.

[WTL]

Originally Posted by keithdog

I heard so many after 9-11 say that they disagreed with what the terrorists did but they understood why they did it. Understood??? Only people who are totally misguided and brainwashed would say they "understand" why anyone would do what they did that day. And this mosque is nothing more than a victory flag for the Muslim extremeists. I can hear the laughter comming from the terrorist camps all the way from here and it makes me sick to know that anyone in power of granting the building of this mosque would allow such a travisty.

I understood why they did what they did that day. I think it was a horrible thing to do, and a poor political calculation, but they had motives just as any organization or group has motives. Those motives arent always logical, and seldom just, but the worst thing we can possibly do is assume that they committed such an act "just because".

I also think we have to be extremely careful not to let emotion rule us, or vengeance dictate how we as Americans act. We are the grownups here, we have the best country on earth. Lets act in accordance with our pedigree.

BTW, I seriously doubt the sheepherders, drug smugglers and angsty youth in Afghanistan have any idea about what is going on in NYC right this moment, let alone laughing about it. They don't watch much fox news out there.

[keithdog]

Originally Posted by WTL

I understood why they did what they did that day. I think it was a horrible thing to do, and a poor political calculation, but they had motives just as any organization or group has motives. Those motives arent always logical, and seldom just, but the worst thing we can possibly do is assume that they committed such an act "just because".

I also think we have to be extremely careful not to let emotion rule us, or vengeance dictate how we as Americans act. We are the grownups here, we have the best country on earth. Lets act in accordance with our pedigree.

BTW, I seriously doubt the sheepherders, drug smugglers and angsty youth in Afghanistan have any idea about what is going on in NYC right this moment, let alone laughing about it. They don't watch much fox news out there.

It's not a matter of emotion, but rather pride. Why should we allow the Muslim extremeists to thumb their noses at us? Why should we allow a mosque to be built on holy ground which is what ground zero is to Americans. I believe we as a people have to be flexable and understanding of others. But we should demand the same in return. Build it elsewhere. Insisting on building it where every American does NOT want it built is insensitive and an insult to all of us. It shows a total lack of understanding and compassion. Rather it is only a way of Muslims to shout, hey America, how do you like this??? HAHAHAHA If you are the snake who bites me I'll cut your head off. Thats what Americans feel and rightly so. As for those in the middle east outback, have you ever seen the videos taken of those areas. Practicly every home and apartment has a satalite dish reception. They definately know whats going on.

[Bassboss]

OK, so I did some research on the topic.

Apparently the facts have been smudged... a little

So, their's a Muslim Community based Org. that has been there for 30 years. Their's an old building near ground zero that they've owned for 30 years, before 9-11 even happened. It's old and beat up, so they wanna renovate it for a Muslim Community Center (not a mosque).

The state (not federal gov.) cannot allow them NOT TO do it. It's simply against the constitution to deny it of them if it's religion (to a certain extent) related.

This is America, They can do it! If it was China on the other hand, their's no way in hell that the thing would be built.

[WTL]

According to the internet "Only 497,000 of the country’s 4.8 million households are connected to what passes for a national power grid" - they are extremely ignorant over there. About the only thing they understand is that we are there, and that the local clerics dont like it - that creates a breeding ground for more box cutter wielding idiots.


Pride is emotion in this case. We need to be smarter. I'm not saying roll over or look the other way. But we cannot allow what is a small case to get us into a tizzy.

Look at the big picture. We have allowed something that happened in 2001 spiral into the longest war in American history with little hope of achieving any objective whatsoever - all in the name of pride and saving national face.

We have lost thousands of American troops, many support personnel and trillions of dollars. We have created more enemies. We have destabilized the middle east. We are farther from our goals, and from living our lives as Americans than ever before. And all because 20 something kids, under the direction from a cult of idiots, boarded 4 planes and killed 3,000+ Americans. Well the vengeance that we seek for those American should not be won with more American blood. These are not worthy enemies. They are not the Japanese Empire, or Spain, or Great Britain or Nazi Germany. These are camel riding fools who are fighting a political war that depends on us following, overextending, and then collapsing.

If we just lived our lives as Americans, and minded our country - the threat would disappear.

[bcklash]

I think we need to get emotional and do whatever it takes, and if that includes taking names later, so be it. We should not let this happen.

[1/4 stick]

Let them have their mosque. They're not doing anything illegal. Then open 24 hour strip club next door and rent it cheap to the hell's angels for gatherings. Maybe have a few Southern Rider parties in there too. Just let me know when cause I wanna pull up a lawn chair on the side walk and watch that go down.

[WTL]

Or we could open a barbque pork restaurant directly west and let the wind carry the delicious smell of roast pig over.

[nofearengineer]

Originally Posted by WTL

Or we could open a barbque pork restaurant directly west and let the wind carry the delicious smell of roast pig over.

Now THAT is American thinking.

Our Constitution simply will not allow us to prevent them from moving in.

Once you accept that, you can move on.

However, just because we can't keep them from being there, it doesn't mean we can't make them want to leave. And by that, I mean in totally legal, non-violent ways. Come on, people...use your heads for something other than hat racks.

We are Americans...we can take those scumbags down, and not even break a sweat. You need to remember that there is no skin on Earth easier to get under than that of the stupid and intolerant.

[Ebbetsguy]

Originally Posted by keithdog

It's not a matter of emotion, but rather pride. Why should we allow the Muslim extremeists to thumb their noses at us? Why should we allow a mosque to be built on holy ground which is what ground zero is to Americans. I believe we as a people have to be flexable and understanding of others. But we should demand the same in return. Build it elsewhere. Insisting on building it where every American does NOT want it built is insensitive and an insult to all of us. It shows a total lack of understanding and compassion. Rather it is only a way of Muslims to shout, hey America, how do you like this??? HAHAHAHA If you are the snake who bites me I'll cut your head off. Thats what Americans feel and rightly so. As for those in the middle east outback, have you ever seen the videos taken of those areas. Practicly every home and apartment has a satalite dish reception. They definately know whats going on.

So your take on this is pride, PRIDE WILL GET YOU KILLED
PLEASE: I want you to consider these 2 points

1. If they get us to compromise our freedom of religion, guarenteed by the First Amendment of our Bill of Rights, Al Queda wins the exact point they wanted to, they have compromised our freedom. Do you think the founding fathers left this for the first Amendmet to be taken lightly? This was first drawn up to PREVENT CONGRES FROM DECLARING AN OFFICAL RELIGION, very important to those who ad no freedom of choice under the English Crown

2. If this is going to be a gathering place for muslim prick head terrorists, let them build it and make the job easier for the Feds to ID them.
Screw they are thumbing their noses at us, lets get down and best these sand fleas at their own game.

[keithdog]

Originally Posted by WTL

According to the internet "Only 497,000 of the country’s 4.8 million households are connected to what passes for a national power grid" - they are extremely ignorant over there. About the only thing they understand is that we are there, and that the local clerics dont like it - that creates a breeding ground for more box cutter wielding idiots.


Pride is emotion in this case. We need to be smarter. I'm not saying roll over or look the other way. But we cannot allow what is a small case to get us into a tizzy.

Look at the big picture. We have allowed something that happened in 2001 spiral into the longest war in American history with little hope of achieving any objective whatsoever - all in the name of pride and saving national face.

We have lost thousands of American troops, many support personnel and trillions of dollars. We have created more enemies. We have destabilized the middle east. We are farther from our goals, and from living our lives as Americans than ever before. And all because 20 something kids, under the direction from a cult of idiots, boarded 4 planes and killed 3,000+ Americans. Well the vengeance that we seek for those American should not be won with more American blood. These are not worthy enemies. They are not the Japanese Empire, or Spain, or Great Britain or Nazi Germany. These are camel riding fools who are fighting a political war that depends on us following, overextending, and then collapsing.

If we just lived our lives as Americans, and minded our country - the threat would disappear.

First of all, people from all over the world made up the 3000plus victoms from 9-11, not just americans. Secondly, this was not the first time we have been attacked. The muslim militants have been attacking the US and our allies for over 3 decades now. Thousands of victoms lives have been claimed from over 30 years of Islamic attacks. And you tell me they are not worthy of our concern??? How many times do we have to be attacked and killed before we decide to respond? How many innocent victoms need to die before we compare them to Nazi Germany? Yes, our cost has been high. But to do nothing would be suicide. The mosque in NY may seem trivial to those who did not suffer from the 9-11 attack. But tell that to the families and friends of those who lost loved ones that day. And those 20 something kids and their idiot leaders you mention are there whether we like it or not. They can't simply be ignored while they continue to bomb planes, hotels, weddings, funerals and so on. I remember a quote that went something like this. Evil men will succeed when good men do nothing. There is a lot of truth to that. And we didn't react to 9-11 JUST because of pride. We also reacted because if we didn't there would be more 9-11's in the future. Our very lives are at stake. They arn't just camel riding fools. They fly jet airliners and operate internationally. And they have no interrest in being friends with us or forging a new understanding. They want us, our allies and Isreal to be destryed in order to create an Islamic world. That is their motive. And those of us who stand in their way must be eliminated. The threat won't just disapear if we live our lives and simply mind our own buisness. We did that for a long time and the attacks kept comming, over and over again. There comes a time when enough is enough. I'm sure Hitler would have LOVED for the US and Britain to have minded our own buisnesses.

[keithdog]

Originally Posted by 1/4 stick

Let them have their mosque. They're not doing anything illegal. Then open 24 hour strip club next door and rent it cheap to the hell's angels for gatherings. Maybe have a few Southern Rider parties in there too. Just let me know when cause I wanna pull up a lawn chair on the side walk and watch that go down.

LMAO, I love that idea stick! I think I'll grab a chair and join ya.

[keithdog]

Originally Posted by Ebbetsguy

So your take on this is pride, PRIDE WILL GET YOU KILLED
PLEASE: I want you to consider these 2 points

1. If they get us to compromise our freedom of religion, guarenteed by the First Amendment of our Bill of Rights, Al Queda wins the exact point they wanted to, they have compromised our freedom. Do you think the founding fathers left this for the first Amendmet to be taken lightly? This was first drawn up to PREVENT CONGRES FROM DECLARING AN OFFICAL RELIGION, very important to those who ad no freedom of choice under the English Crown

2. If this is going to be a gathering place for muslim prick head terrorists, let them build it and make the job easier for the Feds to ID them.
Screw they are thumbing their noses at us, lets get down and best these sand fleas at their own game.

You make a couple good points. The only problem with point number two is that this administration will give those sand fleas free healthcare and education, and probably free tickets to the Super Bowl.

[Ebbetsguy]

Thnks for listeing to all veiwpoints, America has been divded up into red and blue states by the media. If we all stop and listen, most of us want the same things, and if we are willing to admit that both sides have good points and blend them together, instead of hating on each other, we may keep our place in History. With that I bow out, I still think Politics and Religion have done us more harm than good and I do believe in God, but not religion and will continue to pray that we can put policitics aside and take care of each otherI