fish finder ideas

[oglejust]

ive got a cheap garmin fish finder on the console that works ok but basicall just shows depth change, doesnt show any detail. im wanting something side imaging so i can skim over the lake and c what is actually there. been looking at the 998 but its priced pretty dang high so im probably gonna have to settle for a cheaper model. what do u guys think of the 798? another thing ive thought about is just getting a finder for the front, maybe down imaging? and using it until i can afford a nicer one for the console. which would b more beneficial? im not stuck on humminbird but i no absolutely nothing about lowrance, maybe they make something that would work better for the money? any help is appreciated, im just not sure what exactly i need to get.

[lilmule]

You can pick up a head unit of ebay often with the protecting screen still on it 51-80 bucks for a quad wide view or portrait,86 dollars for a quad beam ducer your in business.
I just got one last month for that,its not a small screen and works three beam about 90 deg coverage.Menu selection permits one side or both or down.
So unless your going 180 deg and big bucks spend 200 versus 700-1200,but that s my opinion dont own the latter as spent under 300 for a quad beam setup I can read front or back ducers via a switch on one unit.Do have to get an ext for one ducer as switch wont feed thru the boat sides,but does work as tried it all out on top of the deck prior to install.Lil hydrosport narrows down a lot in the gunwhales switch just wont go thru to thick.The two new transducers cost about 160 bucks Switch kit another 50,so was a major part of that money.
If you go for a combo unit any brand helps if its color and can take chips without that your stuck with what you are viewing.
If you desire a gps have a 755 c chart plotter,would need to place a chip or mmc card in,other wise blank outlines of any lake.It is a chartplotter only but color.Includes the gps ant as its a hard wired unit,mount, power cord,manual.
If interested just ask.
It is another unit on console yet I find most combo units dont do well for both as split screen and small or viewing one or the other full screen,meaning pressing buttons while running,this I kept to the side of a depth finder could view either at a glance.Without any menu selections at wot.

[carolina-rig-01]

I am not familiar with any of the stuff that lilmule is talking about. But I can tell you that I had a 797 side imaging unit on the Ranger I used to have and it served its purpose really well. The only knock I have against it was that the screen was so small that it really made it difficult to tell what you are looking at. I did like it enough that I bought an 1198 side imaging unit and put it on my Triton and I love it. Having the bigger screen has lead me to believe that I did miss some stuff on the smaller screen of the 797, but it was still better than not having side imaging at all. I know they are crazy expensive but if there is any chance that you can afford a side imaging unit with a bigger screen then I would do it, if not then I would go with the 798 and not look back.

[lilmule]

Well your 798ci is a 5 in screen dual beam about 70 deg coverage,with split screen its 2 1/2 each for 1000 dollars or thereabouts.
Those older units I named have larger screens,but are not gps as well,also give a 90 degree coverage area for 1/5 the money.Just no switchfire,or possibly color screens,yet are 3 beam larger screens,and wider coverage areas.
With that small screen if one tried to use it to navigate as an aid you would be squinting at it and enlarging,or running just one the gps or the ff.
If going new buy the larger screen not 3 in or 5 in. 5 in is ok for one screen but not split screen.

[bassboogieman]

The 5" screens are hard to read especially in a split screen mode. The 798cSI does have 3 pre-set screen selections that make it pretty easy to switch between your 3 favorite views. I have both a 798 and an 1197, by far the big screen gives a better picture but at considerably more money. I also found the small unit difficult to see on the front deck when standing and they are hard to see in direct sun. I have moved the 798 to my kayak and I like it much better there as it's closer, the view angle is much better as I'm not standing over it. One other note - you mentioned "skimming" over your water to get a view, I take that to mean at speed. The 'birds side imaging functions best at 6 MPH or less and those SI transducers do not hold bottom (even in 2D mode) well at speeds above 60 MPH. I have a dedicated Lowrance 2D sonar in the dash for depth readings at speed. I also had a lot of trouble with interference from the trolling motor with the 798's transducer mounted on it. I tried a common neutral between the t/m batteries & cranking battery, rubber pad isolation & nothing eliminated it for me.

[Dogmatic]

Originally Posted by bassboogieman

...I have moved the 798 to my kayak and I like it much better there as it's closer, the view angle is much better as I'm not standing over it...

Must be nice having SI on your yak?!

[lilmule]

Exactly why I have a dedicated gps as dont have to push buttons,simple little piranha will see bottom to 60 give detail then flash the depth well into the 80s.
On the bow that 3d wide portrait has shown no interference with the troller t all and with switch can view back or front(thought there might be),bonus is when at slower speeds can actually see the one on the bow tell how deep I am or scout with it,dont have a clue if it will lose bottom and depth over 60 as the boat only does 63 and been tad rough to get it up there.
So basically run 3 units two on console one gps one depth finder and one on the bow,with each end possible actually reads farther over than say a 798ci which is a 2 beam 20 deg and 60 degree overlapping,just not color,switchfire is overrated eye candy,but my opinion is all.Im getting 30 deg more coverage than a newer unit costing 5 times as much, just dont have color.They tend also to read better at speed many lose the capability above 6 mph or so(4 beam),thus why so many place them on a jack plate for idling around,still needing another unit when on plane,or at the least another transducer.

[carolina-rig-01]

Originally Posted by lilmule

Exactly why I have a dedicated gps as dont have to push buttons,simple little piranha will see bottom to 60 give detail then flash the depth well into the 80s.
On the bow that 3d wide portrait has shown no interference with the troller t all and with switch can view back or front(thought there might be),bonus is when at slower speeds can actually see the one on the bow tell how deep I am or scout with it,dont have a clue if it will lose bottom and depth over 60 as the boat only does 63 and been tad rough to get it up there.
So basically run 3 units two on console one gps one depth finder and one on the bow,with each end possible actually reads farther over than say a 798ci which is a 2 beam 20 deg and 60 degree overlapping,just not color,switchfire is overrated eye candy,but my opinion is all.Im getting 30 deg more coverage than a newer unit costing 5 times as much, just dont have color.They tend also to read better at speed many lose the capability above 6 mph or so(4 beam),thus why so many place them on a jack plate for idling around,still needing another unit when on plane,or at the least another transducer.

The side imaging units not reading bottom depth at speed is due to the side imaging transducer. You can add a through the hull transducer and a Y cable and then you will still have side imaging and be able to see how deep the water is when you are running.

[bassboogieman]

I like the seperate unit in the dash - as I already had it mounted in there. And when I'm running WOT I like using the entire 10" screen for the GPS, I can see it much better and zoom in for some of the details.

[lilmule]

Think I covered that with at least another transducer.Many boats not having a single hull thickness available so either a thru hull if available or a second one outside on transom.
Either case to me its easier just to add a simple unit that takes transducers that are cheap,do read well at speed,instead of playing with several transducers to get one to read on a 2k unit and then have possible interference problems on the troller,older tri beams dont seem to have all those troubles,even with the si transducers.Manual menu permits di and appear to operate ok to at least 60 mph.
I normally run a dedicated gps unit as ky lake one has to really pay att to it,a better tri beam on the front deck reading fornt and or back with a simpler unit on console,replacing that one with another tribeam shortly with y cables can read from both units at speed or slow.But its a personal slant,spent $ upon $ trying to get ducers that said they would that didnt on several units gave up, using the ducers on simpler units tribeam.Nice big screens to me anyway,was used to piranha 3 in stuff.Networking is hard to say the least with some models,having si or ci or sci in their name.
Lowrance is about the same two ducers or two units.Depends upon how much you want to spend when it gets down to it all.Most low guys go with a 5 at console then an 8 on front.

[carolina-rig-01]

Originally Posted by lilmule

Think I covered that with at least another transducer.Many boats not having a single hull thickness available so either a thru hull if available or a second one outside on transom.
Either case to me its easier just to add a simple unit that takes transducers that are cheap,do read well at speed,instead of playing with several transducers to get one to read on a 2k unit and then have possible interference problems on the troller,older tri beams dont seem to have all those troubles,even with the si transducers.Manual menu permits di and appear to operate ok to at least 60 mph.
I normally run a dedicated gps unit as ky lake one has to really pay att to it,a better tri beam on the front deck reading fornt and or back with a simpler unit on console,replacing that one with another tribeam shortly with y cables can read from both units at speed or slow.But its a personal slant,spent $ upon $ trying to get ducers that said they would that didnt on several units gave up, using the ducers on simpler units tribeam.Nice big screens to me anyway,was used to piranha 3 in stuff.Networking is hard to say the least with some models,having si or ci or sci in their name.
Lowrance is about the same two ducers or two units.Depends upon how much you want to spend when it gets down to it all.Most low guys go with a 5 at console then an 8 on front.

I am totally lost I guess. I think you are talking about adding a second graph to read the depth in addition to the side imaging unit, but I might be misunderstanding you. Adding the through the hull transducer and the Y cable if he decides to go that way is without a doubt the better way to go for two reasons. First of all if you put another unit next to your side imaging unit you will risk having interference (especially if they aren't the same brand), you will have one more graph drawing power from your battery just for the sake of knowing how deep the water is, and adding another graph will be more clutter in the console. I don't have a clue what you are talking about when you suggest that the through the hull transducer won't work because of fiberglass thickness because there are millions of boats running this type of transducer without problems, as long as it's installed correctly.

[bassboogieman]

Absolutely, it certainly is and I tried mounting the 1197 on it, but it made the yak lean too much. Actually I already had the unit and it wasn't working well up front on my Triton with the t/m interference, so it seemed a logical move. The other thing was that I wanted GPS capability - not very important for local water but I did get a little concerned with getting lost while fishing in Florida last January. We fished some old phosphate pits and they were conneced by narrow channels - not well marked - and getting lost would not have taken a lot of effort. Also, over on lake Toho, we fish a lot of the near shore reeds and they were head high, couldn't see much and they went for quite a distance with canals cutting through them. It really was like a maze in there and getting out might take a while without the benifit of GPS. Going back to Florida, likely in Feb., so I am prepared for anything now.

[Dogmatic]

I can only dream...

[bamabassman]

it's ok kory....we know you root fer texas and get lost easily. hehehhee. (had to do it pal.)

[carolina-rig-01]

Originally Posted by bamabassman

it's ok kory....we know you root fer texas and get lost easily. hehehhee. (had to do it pal.)

I know your joking buddy and that's cool. But I just want the original poster to get information to answer his question.

[lilmule]

Gee I never read that manual so do have two side by side and since I didnt read it they dont interfere,Apples and oranges older dont can sit on top of each other,troller doesnt interfere either,90 degree for few hundred bucks,new 180 degree wont share well or link as well,does get troller interference,does not share well with space costing a few thousand.I have run tests having two gps units one ant and two ff all in a 2ft space no interference.Didnt start out testing that way wanted to see what worked backwards compatible with the transducers and just kept adding and adding,many not having support still worked.Just about any transducer will work on other units the reason they dont as dont share same number of pins in connector or possibly where 200 freq or 83 or whatever is at on those pins,they move them around every few models so you need a 200 dollar plus transducer that operates same freq as an 86 dollar one but wont work as changed where they connect at on the pins.I rewire my own to suit,volt ohm meter,heat shrink tubing-each to his or her own I prefer dedicated for both ff and gps,so two units.
Was an attempt to let him know it can be done cheaper just less eye candy,hes wanting the new so will inherit new problems but also have a 3d world at his feet providing he can operate it.But his choice.
And im not the original poster was merely an answer that most likly isnt wanted.Also have mine external on transom they read bottom till 62-63 then flash actual depth to past 80 mph.Just the difference between old and new.

[carolina-rig-01]

Originally Posted by lilmule

Gee I never read that manual so do have two side by side and since I didnt read it they dont interfere,Apples and oranges older dont can sit on top of each other,troller doesnt interfere either,90 degree for few hundred bucks,new 180 degree wont share well or link as well,does get troller interference,does not share well with space costing a few thousand.I have run tests having two gps units one ant and two ff all in a 2ft space no interference.Didnt start out testing that way wanted to see what worked backwards compatible with the transducers and just kept adding and adding,many not having support still worked.Just about any transducer will work on other units the reason they dont as dont share same number of pins in connector or possibly where 200 freq or 83 or whatever is at on those pins,they move them around every few models so you need a 200 dollar plus transducer that operates same freq as an 86 dollar one but wont work as changed where they connect at on the pins.I rewire my own to suit,volt ohm meter,heat shrink tubing-each to his or her own I prefer dedicated for both ff and gps,so two units.
Was an attempt to let him know it can be done cheaper just less eye candy,hes wanting the new so will inherit new problems but also have a 3d world at his feet providing he can operate it.But his choice.
And im not the original poster was merely an answer that most likly isnt wanted.Also have mine external on transom they read bottom till 62-63 then flash actual depth to past 80 mph.Just the difference between old and new.

All I am saying is that he already said that he has a unit that shows depth. He asked about side imaging units and you went on and on about how he can save money by buying this transducer or that head unit, none of which are side imaging units and neither solution address his question. I pointed out that he could get a through the hull transducer to solve the issue of the side imaging transducer not showing water depth at speed and you then went on with something about it not working because of hull thickness (which is not true). The through the hull transducer will cost him a few hundred dollars more and then you need the Y cable. But when all is said and done he would have one unit that will do both side imaging and also show the depth, and all of that without having to add yet another graph to his boat that he pieced together by buying the head unit and transducer seperate. You were talking about a "quadbeam" and a "tri-beam" neither of which I have heard of but I am assuming that they aren't side imaging units which mean they are not what he was asking about. And you make side imaging units out to sound like they are some kind of rubix cube that are impossible to figure out, and that is certainly not true.

And if you don't think that the side imaging units will interfere with another unit of a different brand maybe you should ask everettvet about it. He had a thread a year or so back talking about his experience with it.

[oglejust]

whoa didnt mean to start an argument. just lookin at my options, roger knows im poor so hes just tryin to help me with a cheaper setup, im very proud of my new boat and since i got it for such a steal i feel obligated to spend some money on the rig haha. im on a trip to st louis mo for work so im gonna go to bass pro tomorrow and look at some finders, hopefully they have a 998 there that i can play with. thinkin i might b goin that route which would make a nice finder for the console. no clue what would go up front tho, something down imaging? ive seen where ppl say they dont use side imaging up front so im guessing they use down imaging?

[lilmule]

I can only say something about my own experience not someone elses and havnt had that issue,again it isnt his desire to go used and older so unless you can enlighten him as to an 1198 its mute and quad beams or tri beams are side finders that work 90 deg.
Hull thickness is an issue with any transducer it must be single hull thickness to read well,they are not impossible to figure out,older ones are easy newer one take a bit more menu selections as do more.As for 200 dollar transducer s havnt bought any 86 dollar ones and a rewire works quite well,but not suited for many as dont have the skills.Ive run same brands normally but also had mixes within inches of each other some may interfere but have never had that problem.
Other than an explanation mute as in a side note he wants new as intends to operate same boat a long time sort of a treat and cant blame him one bit.

[carolina-rig-01]

Originally Posted by lilmule

I can only say something about my own experience not someone elses and havnt had that issue,again it isnt his desire to go used and older so unless you can enlighten him as to an 1198 its mute

I guess that is kind of what I was saying all along. He asked about side imaging units and he got a bunch of information about how he could piece together some old units by buying the head unit here and the transducer there. As for enlightening him about an 1198, I have had mine for a few months now and I am willing to help him any way I can if he has questions by giving him as much relative information as I can to help him find answers to his questions.

[lilmule]

My apologies ogle didnt mean to sidetrack the thread what works for me may not well for someone else
Ive got a sf up front but older tri beam and no interference,its the four beams most complain about troller interference.Four beam 180 deg ,tri beam 90 deg,dual beam even less deg but still sf or can be 200/400 freq just not as far out either side.Number of beams can be any number from one to four to make up a sf,original one was a bottom line scout one beam omi directional.

[lilmule]

I offered that info as thought he was pinching pennies he isnt.
And they were side finders just less costly,older and 90 deg with less functions.

[Tavery5]

Originally Posted by lilmule

I offered that info as thought he was pinching pennies he isnt.
And they were side finders just less costly,older and 90 deg with less functions.

Mule, SI by todays standard can see up to 150ft to either side of the boat in 2ft of water, it also gives a realistic 3D picture that is far easier to interpret. The type of units you are speaking about are traditional 2D sonar units with wide cones, they are also very dependent upon water depth to provide any real area of coverage.

The difference is night and day, while your units may work fine for you, it is outdated technology and when you tell people asking about current day SI and DI imaging units that the older technology is just the same and cheaper it only adds confusion to those who are looking for answers.

Take the time to familiarize yourself with the newer units, that way when someone asks about current day SI and DI you can provide them with valuable insight rather than add to their confusion. Only my opinion.

[oglejust]

ok c rig any input on a finder for the front deck if i go with a 998si on the console?

[carolina-rig-01]

Originally Posted by oglejust

whoa didnt mean to start an argument. just lookin at my options, roger knows im poor so hes just tryin to help me with a cheaper setup, im very proud of my new boat and since i got it for such a steal i feel obligated to spend some money on the rig haha. im on a trip to st louis mo for work so im gonna go to bass pro tomorrow and look at some finders, hopefully they have a 998 there that i can play with. thinkin i might b goin that route which would make a nice finder for the console. no clue what would go up front tho, something down imaging? ive seen where ppl say they dont use side imaging up front so im guessing they use down imaging?

You didn't start an argument, at least not as far as I am concerned. I have just noticed a lot of people asking questions on here lately and getting led astray by either bad advice or people telling them all kinds of stuff that don't apply to their questions. I understand all about pinching pennies, I am a younger guy that just lost his job of 7 years and is 3 months into a new job while building a house and raising a family. While I feel fortunate that money isn't extremely tight, we sure don't have the money to blow that we did 6 months ago so I certainly understand where you are coming from. In fact I wanted a 1197 when they came out and it took me so long to save up the money that the 1198's were out before I had the cash. Then I wanted to buy the 1198 for a few years and finally just pulled the trigger on one a few months ago. They are certainly a huge investment, which is why I want to make sure that you get all the information you need about the graph you are interested in because being disappointed in that purchase would surely suck.

Originally Posted by oglejust

ok c rig any input on a finder for the front deck if i go with a 998si on the console?

Well what exactly are you wanting the unit to do for you? Are you wanting something along the lines of down imaging/side imaging? I have heard some people say that they use the hell out of side imaging up front because they can see balls of baitfish off to the side of the boat. Other guys say that they don't use it much at all because the picture gets messed up when they turn the trolling motor (which would be my concern). If you think you would use it then I would look at something in the 798 or 898 range. I understand what the guys are saying when they want a bigger screen up front, but to me that is just a bigger target for a jig to hit when I am flipping (and jigs will break those screens). The thing is if you go with a side imaging unit and decide you don't like using the side imaging on the trolling motor you can still use the down imaging, but if you go with a down imaging graph then you can't use side imaging. That is just a decision you will have to make on your own because I can see positives and negatives both ways. Also are you wanting to have GPS up front in addition to the console? I certainly would because even if you don't use it to save waypoints then it would still be very useful for keeping the boat on a break line or point. If you go with a Humminbird GPS unit up front as well then I would make sure that they are interlink compatable so you could have them share waypoints, even if you decided to add it later on. I guess I would be able to give you more advice if you narrowed down your options a little bit, then at least I could tell you what I would do if it were me.